Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

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Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Atlantic1912 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:02 pm

Were most members of the crew who were lost prevented from entering lifeboats either through orders or as part of their duty?

I am specifically thinking of the victualling crew.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby VW1956 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:23 am

Hello Atlantic1912. Just guessing here but I would have thought that as they were not trained seamen they would not be required to help in the boats and as we have all read many times if you were a man you did not attempt to enter a boat in order to save your own life. Ken.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Atlantic1912 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:45 pm

Yes, that is true Ken. But I wonder if the remaining female members of the victualling crew were asked/felt they should not abandon their posts or if it was just a matter of being told "passengers first" or "no more room".
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby pat toms » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:26 pm

I am mystified by the term victualling crew a term that i have never heard mentioned before,what are they?
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby bwormst » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:00 pm

Victualling Crew indicates those who are responsible for taking care of the passengers - the pursers, stewards, kitchen staff. As opposed to the Deck crew, who run the ship itself, and the Engineering crew who worked in the Engine Rooms and the boiler rooms.

As far as crew kept below, there is evidence that some/most of the Ala Carte Restaurant crew were. Kitchen Clerk Paul Mauge was allowed to pass up to the Boat Deck since he was dressed like a passenger, but the most of the rest of the Ala Carte personell were kept below decks in their cabins.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Dave Gittins » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:19 pm

By the wonders of English, the victualling crew was pronounced vittling crew and they dispensed vittles. The term is still used by people even older than me.

As I recall, there is an account from Charlotte Collyer of boiler room crew being sent below, perhaps by Henry Wilde.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Atlantic1912 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:37 pm

Bill, That would have been Mr. Paul Mauge: http://www.titanic-titanic.com/paul_ach ... auge.shtml And Mr. Pierre Rousseau http://www.titanic-titanic.com/pierre_rousseau.shtml

He testified that stewards would not allow the other cooks to leave, but did allow him and Mr. Pierre Rousseau to pass.
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They were saved by the clothes on their back?

Postby Atlantic1912 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:32 am

Dave Gittins wrote:As I recall, there is an account from Charlotte Collyer of boiler room crew being sent below, perhaps by Henry Wilde.


That bring up another point Dave, who had the authority to have ordered the stewards to prevent people from making for the boat deck? I know just about anyone in a position above them could order (like officers) but who do you think might have been in the position to do so that night?

I can see no reason why the restaurant staff was not allowed up, except for them not being passengers; since the only staff to leave were dressed in plain clothing and were apparently mistaken for passengers could it have been that the stewards did consider them a part of the crew and as such should not leave before passengers?
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby pat toms » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:30 am

Dave,thanks for the explanation of the victualling crew,I remember my grandfather in dorset using the word Have you had your vittels yet,maybe an old anglo saxon word,reffering to a meal breakfast or something.Tictualling crew has now opened up a new chapter in my nautical education.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Dave Gittins » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:44 am

Any order about keeping people below should have gone to the victualling crew from Captain Smith via the purser. I don't know of any evidence to show this was done. It was all rather chaotic. For instance, while some passengers were having trouble getting from third class to the boat deck, Berk Pickard simply walked up some steps and got into a boat. Maybe he'd studied deck plans. Maybe he just had a sense of direction.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby pat toms » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:02 am

dave you seem very knowledgeble in nautical things as i beleive you were actually a sailor,or connected to the sea,if i remember correctly,as you know i have been to adelaide and met the president of the titanic society there,my cousin lives in ne road adelaide.However to skip the introduction,would the the firemen or boiler stokers have died below decke when the titanic sank?
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Dave Gittins » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:25 am

I'm a rock-hopping yachtsman, as you can see on my web site. I'm quite a bit north of the NE Road.

Bill Wormstedt might have the information you want on his site. I haven't looked at it for years and I don't have the URL, so Google. Bill analysed the numbers of dead and the number of recovered bodies and assumed that if few bodies were recovered from a particular group they must have been trapped below.

I see Bill has been looking at this site lately, so he might comment.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby VW1956 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:15 pm

Hello Atlantic1912. Just guessing now but I would have thought that the female crew members would have been allowed into the boats. The fact that they were female would surely supersede the fact that they were crew. Ken.
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby pat toms » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:50 pm

chaos was the order of the day thanks to the white star line etc,resulting in the death of my grandfather who i never met and the other 1500 people
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Re: Members of the crew who were lost in the sinking

Postby Dave Gittins » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:21 am

Here's Bill Wormstedt's site and his study of the recovered bodies.

http://wormstedt.com/titanic/analysis.html
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