Did any officers commit suicide? Who?

[wruth03@aol.com]

Aly I like you would like to know the identity of the officer who committed suicide. However I also think that getting to the bottom of this is unlikely for two reasons. One is that there are probably relatives out there who could be caused pain anf embarrasment if it was revealed. Two is that a hundred years have gone and the people who could have identified the officer are now dead. Too much water has flowed under the bridge so to speak. Personally as has been pointed out by the likes of Bill Wormstedt and George Behe both Murdoch and Wilde were probably wearing Chief Officer's uniforms. This makes it all the more difficult to really solve this riddle. Plus as you have observed both were similar in appearance. I have to say I am not optimistic of finding a definitive answer any time soon.
Denise

[Aly Jones]

Denise, I too think we will never know for sure.

I was thinking 'A Poll', too see whether the T-T members thoughts and opinions on who committed suicide out of the two officers' Wilde and Murdoch. What do you think? I'm a curious person.

Wait! Its Nboals thread, not mine. lol.

[wruth03@aol.com]

Aly it sounds as if you and I are alike in that respect. I too am curious I really would like the truth of all this to be revealed. However as I said I am not optimisic. Having said that I agree a poll amongst us T-T members would be very interesting. However I'm not too sure we should allow Pat to take part as he has inside information!!!
Denise

[nboal]

Its easy to say the officers did their best, when you were never there to witness It and your life was never threatened by their actions.

Honesty,If you were there, wouldn't you be spitting chips' frothing at the mouth, In the last dying seconds?

Actually, if a person had been resolved to face one's death, knowing that he/she will likely die, then that person would likely be forgiving of the officers, even if it were known that they had made mistakes.

[nboal]

However remember that Lightoller and some other officers didn't even know the ship was going down. They still had confidence the ship would stay afloat.

This is kind of an "aside." But I'm confused as to why Lightoller truly thought that the ship wasn't going down. Couldn't he see or feel the cold water lapping over the bow as the bow sunk lower and lower? When did he finally realize that the ship truly was doomed, or was he in deep denial the entire time? I'm sure that he knew that the ship was sinking when he jumped into the water and climbed aboard overturned Collapsible B.

[pat toms]

nboal,Lightoller seems to be mentioned in all sorts of situations,but he did not commit suicide.It is true there were people who think that such and such did themselves in,a officer was seen to shoot himself,or was in a certain place when the gun went off,all sorts of reports,it may be that more than one officer did this,as you know the reports I have given are not from books,the reports would be from I presume were from 3rd class passengers,but not all as they came back to tell my Grandmother.A lot of stories that I came by were from people who did not go to the Court of Inquiry,and were not asked especially 3rd class.The intelligentsia,on the ship were asked many questions as they knew most of the answers,but also it was not what they said, but what they did not say which was more important.This is then the official report,I have found that things that are said outside the court by people are not mentioned generally,by the media,and this is not always correct,but also I have noticed that the newspapers seem to print almost the same story as the others,is this a coincidence or is it on purpose.?

[joshua]

However remember that Lightoller and some other officers didn't even know the ship was going down. They still had confidence the ship would stay afloat.

This is kind of an "aside." But I'm confused as to why Lightoller truly thought that the ship wasn't going down. Couldn't he see or feel the cold water lapping over the bow as the bow sunk lower and lower? When did he finally realize that the ship truly was doomed, or was he in deep denial the entire time? I'm sure that he knew that the ship was sinking when he jumped into the water and climbed aboard overturned Collapsible B.

Lightoller at first just learned the basics. He knew they hit an iceberg and water was flooding the mail room. In his account he said he saw the bow sink low into the water but he assumed with the watertight doors the weight of the water brought the bow low but she would stabilize. I don't remember him saying when he realized the ship was sinking but it was likely towards the beginning because later he would check stairs to see the progress of the water.

One description that may be of use is that the officer who committed suicide shot others, said "Well gentlemen, I guess it's every man for himself." Then he shot himself. This sounds like a man without hope and heard Captain Smith's last words. It seems he thought about this for a little bit beforehand and the shooting of the panicking passengers gave him motive. Now if we can look at the accounts of the officers beforehand we can come up with the most likely candidate. My opinion is it was either Wilde or Moody.

[pat toms]

nboal,Yes it might have been either,it is a game now to find out what happened and of course the attention is on the officers as they did have guns and realised more than the passengers the situation they were all in,and realised that their rank did not mean much now,as they were in a similar postion as the passengers and they were meant to help but there was not a lot they could do.The responsibity was theirs. Pat

[wruth03@aol.com]

Pat I am sure you have a better idea if this is true but Walter Lord in his book A Night to Remember stated that inquiry only spoke to one third class passenger. This to me was wrong as third class are just as able to explain what happened as first or second class. Plus when it came to such issues as class discrimination surely they are better able to shed light on that. Yes I have noticed one press story is the same practically word for word as another. The trouble is press reports are notoriously inacurate which does not help anyone seeking the truth.

Joshua I have always believed it was either Murdoch or Wilde who committed suicide. Personally I have a slight suspicion it might have been Murdoch. Mainly I suppose because of the uproar in Dalbeatie about James Cameron's film portrayal. Thinking of the old saying Me thinketh they protest too much. However that could be my suspicious mind. Sadly though as I agreed with Aly I am not optimistic that we shall ever know.
Denise

[Aly Jones]

Had you Been in a life death situation at the mercy of others nboal? Then how would you know, you would be so forgiving when either- your own life was at risk, your husband, son, daughter, pets had died because of the actions of others.

Of cause most of us are in favor of our beloved officers but real people died in thier care.

[pat toms]

wruth03at aoll.com,I agree with your view,no evidence about the situation of who really shot themselves only accusations and some witness reports,if it was from third class ignore,if it was from reports to my grandmother via word of mouth ignore.If it was in the media it was right? Pat

[VW1956]

Hello. I was wondering if any people from the Board of Trade lost there jobs over the hopelessly outdated rules on the number of boats required. It seems the way they worked was to sit back and let life go on until something bad happens. Then we change things so that it doesn't happen again. The very same work practices are still going on today. I can picture that there are very well paid people going off to work to there big shiny offices sitting at a big shiny table all day congratulating themselves on what a great job there doing. Then something goes wrong and these very same people all have a solution on how to not let it happen again. Ken.

[VW1956]

Hello Denise. The White Star Line when advertising how great the Olympic class ships were used as one of there slogans "practically unsinkable". I think this was a perfectly good and true thing to say about there new class of liners. Because of the watertight compartments they could have "pushed the boat out" no pun intended and said "unsinkable" because at the time the worst case scenario was that two compartments could be opened to the water.

Hello Joshua. You do realise that by suggesting that Officer Moody might have shot himself you risk the wrath of Aly. Ken.

[wruth03@aol.com]

Yes Ken I know the White Star Line used the words practically unsinkable and it was the media who deleted the word practically. The media still do things like that today. So no change there then. However I still think it was foolhardy in the extreme to label any ship practically unsinkable. As you are leaving yourself open to blame and ridicule when it proves not to be as great as you claimed. As all of us know fate has a habit of making you look silly when you make pronouncements of that kind.

I do not believe that the officer who shot himself was Moody. I personally believe the onle reason he gets linked with this is because there are few records of Moody's movements that night. However that is hardly a reason to think he shot himself. No I think he was busy loading lifeboats till the end and sadly lost his life in the icy waters of the Atlantic. Anyway all mentions of an officer shooting himself if they do stipulate anyone it was the Chief Officer and as that concerns Murdoch and Wilde where does Moody come into it?
Denise

[VW1956]

Hello Denise. It was Joshua that implied that Officer Moody might have been the one. I did put "Hello Joshua" before I wrote that part. Ken.