Did any officers commit suicide? Who?

[Aly Jones]

Pat, I think your ignoring my question on whether the suicide were between Murdoch and Wilde,lol. But you have a right to ignore any question you wish too.

Denise, I just don't think, its seamanship to do such a thing like' committing suicide, while your passengers are going to perish. I see It like, the same aspects as, crew abandoning ship whilst leaving the passengers behind defending for themselves. I feel all main officers, should had done their duty right to the very end, just like captain Smith had done. It were their responsibility to do so.

Duly noted that 'seaman crew and officers' had a bad time after the disaster. Hichens Is great prove on this, I also believe passengers had a bad time too after the disaster.

Before the suicide committing by an officer, I had wondered If this went through his head? We had many berg warnings In our hands and pockets and chart board and in the radio room, why didn't we act pond It more seriously, than we did ? You did say something about guilt, In your previous post?

[joshua]

Aly, what could they have done? The last lifeboats were out of their hands and there were two other officers there. The only thing we can do is put ourselves in their shoes. With water just 1-2 feet below them, a mammoth liner slipping quickly away and the passengers in your care about to die horribly, the stress would be enough for an officer to act on a split second decision and end it all without thinking it through especially for a contientious man. Captain Smith even abandoned the ship after releasing the crew of their duty.

[Aly Jones]

Captain Smith abandoned ship when the ship were about to go under? and Smith never committed suicide, meaning he never took the easy way out.

I'm more Interested In finding out which officer It was. We will have more knowledge In why he blew his brains out, when all the remainder officers never.

[pat toms]

Aly Jones,So Captain Smith did not take the easy way out,how heroic of him,a good example to people. Pat

[wruth03@aol.com]

Aly I still think these officers deserve compassion not criticism. Remember one thing It did not matter a jot about seamanship. At end of the day nothing can change the fact that there were never going to be anywhere near enough lifeboat space to save those on board. Also that was not the fault of the officers. It was the British Board of Trade responsible for that. Quite frankly I pity the officers being put in a situation like that. I mean we all have a go at Captain Smith for going to fast into an icefield and rightly so. However if there had been sufficient lifeboat space and no lives had been lost nobody would be concerned. The fact is it is the Board of Trade who are ultimately responsible for this tragedy. So I feel they are the ones to criticise not the officers.
Denise

[Aly Jones]

True,True. The officers had no control over the quantity of lifeboats, but they were in control of lifeboat capacity.

I wouldn't blame the board of trade myself, but brainwashing the crew into believing that their ship were unsinkable, did caused this disaster---

1) they hit an berg.

2) they half filled most of the lifeboats.

3) one officer committed suicide.

I truly believe Smith and the officers were under some sort of Influence power from their employer. I do believe, the crew were not In total control of their ship, In the way the crew were suppose to be. Etc..Falsely lead...

[wruth03@aol.com]

Yes Aly there should have been more put into lifeboats. However if you read the evidence given at the two inquiries there were several members of the crew who disputed the number that could have been safely installed into the boats. Actually there was only the one boat that was severely under capacitated. Lifeboat number 1 the Duff Gordon's boat and personally I believe they had a major hand in that. I also do not think the collapsible boats were particularly good. In fact there was some dispute on the Olympic not long after the Titanic sank the crew disputed the safety of these boats and ended in the abandonment of Olympic's voyage. Yes I also think the White Star Line had to share some of the blame. They should never have used the words practically unsinkable as it is asking for trouble anyway.

However I wouldn't be to quick to withhold blame on the Board of Trade. The fact is there was only a lifeboat capacity for under a half of the number on board. The truth is there was always going to be at least a thousand fatalities even if the boats had been fully loaded. The blame for that has to fall fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the Board of Trade. I still say the officers were placed in an horrific situation that was not their fault. Personally my heart goes out to all the crew. Also the White Star Line made it very difficult for the surviving officers and crew to gain promotion in later years so to me they had the rough end of the stick all round.
Denise

[nboal]

I grew up in a family that frequently sailed their own boats. Just about all of my recent ancestors had sailboats. I was told tales of heroism and tragedy about shipwrecks. One thing that was drilled into me was that "a ship's captain ALWAYS goes down with his ship." That was given to me as an absolute. If I were ever a skipper on a sailboat and my boat were to sink, I should go down with it. Though most of the sailboats that I sailed on were made of wood or fiberglass. Most of them would float rather than sink if capsized. So in that case, we could wait to be saved rather than expect to go down with it, because wooden and fiberglass sailboats wouldn't go down. The boat was saved as well in several instance where they had been capsized. Figure that logic out, if you can. But we could read and listen to the great tales of shipwrecks where captains always went down with their ships.

I also remember the sad tale of Captain Calamai of the Andrea Doria. He also believed that a captain goes down with his ship. So when the Andrea Doria sank, Captain Calamai tried to go down with it. Rescuers had to drag him away (I believe literally) in order to save him. He spent the rest of his life in a very depressed state, I understand.

So I believe without question that Captain Smith was determined to go down with his ship. I can't judge him for doing that. It may very well have been his fault that the collision occured. In which case, his decision to go down with his ship was also included with the idea of a disgraced Roman soldier falling on his sword.

[joshua]

I too believe a captain ought to go down with the ship, but only when there are others on board. It may be that Captain Smith washed over and the survivors thought he dove in. There is no question he was at the Bridge when the ship sank which indicates he probably tried to go down with the ship. When you have all the passengers and crew off the ship, why go down? The Captain's duty is to be the last one off the ship and if he can't, then go down. That's my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree with me. However, I'd rather have someone like Turner or Smith as captain than the Captain of the Costa Concordia with more than 300 women still on board. The heroism of all the officers is beyond question. Lightoller when asked to man a lifeboat by Wilde refused and Wilde and Murdoch's were last seen trying to cut Collapsible A free. All acted dutifully and honorably and set an example to those who now command ships of today.

[pat toms]

Joshua,You are very kind with your synopsis,of the situation,and your interest about the Officers they all try to do their best and some fall short,that is human nature. Pat

[Aly Jones]

I would like to know, how many people here, would say the same thing about the officers, If you were on the ship about to die? With the same repeated history! Would you still think the officers did a marvelous job? Would you still, pat them on the back and say 'well done boys' you did your best? and now, I'm about to go to my death!

Its easy to say the officers did their best, when you were never there to witness It and your life was never threatened by their actions.

Honesty,If you were there, wouldn't you be spitting chips' frothing at the mouth, In the last dying seconds?

[Aly Jones]

I also think, captain and officers were over confidence, and the unsinkable claim never help them either. Apparently, when Titanic left and sailed away from her port' the spectators were shouting out' Rule Britannia? Britain were the biggest and most powerful country In 1912. Do you think, the captain and officers thought they were invincible?

[wruth03@aol.com]

Yes Aly Titanic is a terrible example of over confidence. However I don't think we can blame Captain Smith or the other officers for that. Never forget that they were spun that unsinkable yarn for years by the White Star Line. So in all truth they just accepted that as fact. We have a similar problem now with the media. The media preaches something and people just accept it and think what they are told to think. Our British press are the worlds worst for this. I don't know what your press are like in Australia Aly but I am afraid I despair with ours. I really think they were asking for trouble calling the ship unsinkable as that is a recipe for disaster. Remember the Russian Submarine the Kursk that was claimed to be unsinkable too and look what happened to that. As for the captain of the Costa Concordia well he has to be the worst captain I have heard of. I find it difficult to think of a worse one. Yes Captain Smith made mistakes but he can hardly be compared to that idiot.
Denise

[joshua]

True, I wasn't there but many survivors commended them. Most had their moments of miscalculation but this was an extraordinary and unanticipated event. The captain and officers were of course proud (except for possibly Wilde) of this new ship with the world watching the greatest ship in the world on her maiden voyage. They had good reason. However remember that Lightoller and some other officers didn't even know the ship was going down. They still had confidence the ship would stay afloat. I wouldn't blame the officers for anything but miscalculations. I'd say they acted well considering the fact they never had a boat drill and were left to themselves to get passengers off safely. If it wasn't for the foresight of Wilde regarding the guns, the tireless efforts of Murdoch or the determination of Lightoller things would've been worse.

[Aly Jones]

No not at all, I agree. What Smith was doing was legal In 1912, CC captain was a total fool showing off.

Maybe we should analyze more on Murdoch and Wilde and discuss more on them? They are the two officers In question. The Chief officers uniform was spotted as the officer that committed suicide. Achmet had mentioned that Murdoch never bothered changing his uniform to 1st officer. Did any passengers describe what the suicide officer had looked like? That would not help either, since the both officers were tall and dark hair' very similar looking.