Did any officers commit suicide? Who?

[nboal]

I remember that in Cameron's film "Titanic," (and in another film) Murdoch was portrayed as shooting himself in the head. I understand that Cameron ended up apologizing to Murdoch's descendants and family. I do remember reading that two survivors stated independently that one of the officers commited suicide something during the sinking. I also recall that there is some disagreement over which officer, if any, commited suicide. What is the latest research on this? Just curious.

[Aly Jones]

No one really knows for sure.

Officer Lowe, Lightoller, Boxhall, Pittman all survived, Moody was last seen loading a lifeboat, I doubt a young officer would had committed suicide. So we can rule him out.
That leaves us with Captain Smith,Officer Wilde and Officer Murdoch' all high ranking officers that had loads of responsibility. They knew they had not sail Titanic correctly and therefore duty of care they failed on. If one happened to commit suicide, It's out of the 3 highest ranking officers. But then again, how do we know' no suicide was committed? there Is no hard on facts.

[pat toms]

Aly Jones,The story of an officer shooting himself,was told to me by my Grandmother as a boy,it was on the bridge of the Titanic.It was a story told to me because when the survivors came back to Dorset they went and saw my Grandmother and told her many things about the sinking of the Ship plus an officer Shooting himself. Pat

[Aly Jones]

Pat, Can you tell us more about the story on this thread? Many of us would be Interested In hearing It.

[pat toms]

Aly Jones,I would be a bit coy about naming the Officer because of the relatives,who are still about and it would hurt their feelings.But there you have a choice of of officers,and the information I have would be controversial,I leave people to speculate.However even if I did release the information people would not beleive it as I have been many times contradicted by people when I have told or printed something.Lets just say that it did happen and is not another fairy story. Pat

[Aly Jones]

Pat, you know what officer committed suicide? was It one of the three I mentioned? Captain Smith, officer Murdoch, officer Wilde?

[jerauf]

This is a well-tread topic. No one knows who or if. So, I'd be careful going into much detail, pat. The story your grandmother told you is hearsay and not confirmed.

[pat toms]

Jerauf,Yes you are right in what you say I am being careful about any revelations,and already someone has said this has not been confirmed,which officer shot himself,also they might have all shot themselves or maybe 2 or one,since there is no proof,then we are back to speculation.However I am fairly sure that it was not my Grandfather who shot himself even though he was an officer of sorts,in fact a Quartermaster on Board the Titanic,and the story was and I do not mind saying it as it was my relative.he was seen by a witness holding a child in his arms,however it seems that meny people saw this man also putting a child into a lifeboat,but the again there,are then stories about this man and was seen by many people I beleive it was the same man who was seen on the deck,as a third class passenger then he would have been lucky if this was the case as I suspect maybe by then the boats had left by that time,however he was according to reports again from my grandmother seen on the deck. Pat

[nboal]

Here is a web site that quotes several survivor accounts. They mention an officer shooting into a crowd and then turning the gun on himself. But no one mentions the name of the officer. Obviously it wasn't Lightoller or Lowe or any of the officers who survived. I doubt that it was Capt. Smith because I think that he would have been readily recognizable by these witnesses.

http://wormstedt.com/Titanic/shots/shots.htm

Relevant excerpts:

Eugene Patrick Daly, 3rd Class passenger: The following is an excerpt from a letter that Daly wrote to his younger sister Maggie Daly in Ireland. The letter is undated, but was apparently written sometime between April 18-April 21, 1912 (this account was originally published in The Night Lives On by Walter Lord):

"At the first cabin (deck) when a boat was being lowered an officer pointed a revolver and said if any man tried to getin, he would shoot him on the spot. I saw the officer shoot two men dead because they tried to get in the boat. Afterwards there was another shot, and I saw the officer himself lying on the deck. They told me he shot himself, but I did not see him. I was up to my knees in the water at the time. Everyone was rushing around, and there were no more boats. I then dived overboard."

Miss Laura Francatelli, 1st Class passenger (Lady Duff Gordon's secretary): Miss Francatelli gave the following story in a letter to someone named "Marion" on April 18, 1912 (portions of this letter appeared in James Cameron's Titanic by Ed Marsh, and Titanic: Women and Children First by Judith B. Geller)

"The dear brave officer gave orders to row away from the sinking boat at least 200 yards, he afterwards poor dear brave fellow, shot himself. We saw the whole thing, and watched that tremendous thing quickly sink...."

Carl Olof Jansson, 3rd Class passenger: In a private letter (published in Titanic: End of a Dream by Wyn Craig Wade), Jansson also wrote the following:

"I glanced toward the bridge and saw the chief officer place a revolver in his mouth and shoot himself. His body toppled overboard." [NOTE from nboal: It's unclear as to who "the chief officer" is]

George Alexander Lucien Rheims, 1st Class passenger: The following is an excerpt from an unpublished letter to his wife in France, dated April 19, 1912 (excerpts of this letter appeared in The Night Lives On by Walter Lord). It is translated from French:

"While the last boat was leaving, I saw an officer with a revolver fire a shot and kill a man who was trying to climb into it. As there remained nothing more to do, the officer told us, "Gentlemen, each man for himself, good-bye." He gave a military salute and then fired a bullet into his head. That’s what I call a man!!!"

[Aly Jones]

The problem Is there's is to many eyewitness with different stories that don't connect. We would had thought a few witnesses statements would had been identical, pin pointing who committed suicide. We only have witnesses that could not directly indentify by name the officer who committed suicide.
We do know, we have evidence that a suicide by the amount of witnesses confirments

[George Lorton]

I knew about Rheims and Daly's letters. I do wonder if Chief Officer Wilde might not have been the one to blow his brains out? Walter Lord always thought he was the best one to suspect out of all of them because so little was known about Wilde back in the 90's.

However, I wonder regarding Carl Olof Jansson letter, how he would of known that the Officer blowing his brains out was a Chief Officer?? Wilde was the Chief Officer!

[Aly Jones]

Not one witness ever confirmed a name of an Officer. All stated that an 'Officer' shot a passenger or an 'Officer' shot himself.

[George Lorton]

That makes sense when you think about it. Most of the passengers didn't know who these officers were. Which makes me believe that these passengers reported what they saw or at least some of them did. I still wonder how Jansson knew that the officer who shot himself was a "Chief" Officer?

[Aly Jones]

Most of the passengers didn't know who these officers were.

Exactly. We will never know who committed suicide.

I still wonder how Jansson knew that the officer who shot himself was a "Chief" Officer?

Maybe the uniform? But No other witnesses ever mentioned a chief officer.

[Achmet Pamba]

Salaam.

In regard to the claim that the "chief officer" (Wilde by inference) committed suicide, it is interesting to note that - after the officer shakeup and Blair's departure - the remaining officers do not appear to have altered their old uniforms by sewing their new insignia of rank on those uniforms. (Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that the Queenstown photo of the two officers in the gangway door shows Second Officer Lightoller still wearing the insignia of a first officer.) If so, this would mean that Murdoch was probably still wearing the insignia of a chief officer. Since a number of crewmen later said that the "chief officer" committed suicide, and since most of those crewmen would have been relying on the uniform's visible insignia of rank for their identifications, it is possible that these crewmen were actually referring to Murdoch.

Achmet