John Mabey, 3rd Class Steward - a major error

[Sandra J Smith]

Hello Andrew,
Indeed, I remember you well and your dedication to the Titanic "project". How wonderful that the Henry Bowyer grave has been restored in time for the anniversary!
Family history research has changed considerably in the past 42 years; so much online these days, I no longer have to make treks to various record offices. I have developed a new research "rule" for family history in consequence - don't believe anything that is "typed" or "transcribed - always go back to the original document.
I seem to remember that the said Mrs Oram claimed in her pursuit of money from the Titanic Fund that she had raised John Mabey. He was certainly only 9 or 10 when his mother died, but those census returns after her death show that he was residing with brothers.
If you do find anything more I would be really grateful - I would love to discover who the mysterious Mrs Oram was.
Regards
Sandra

[Andrew'sRFSC]

Evening Sandra,

I've actually finished with the exhausting task by compling each page by hand - I now have in my possession all 653 pages of the Southampton Committee.Some of the case's are pretty sad and harrowing, a minuet number are full of scandal, whilst the rest is pretty straiaghtforward, until we get to Mrs. Oram whose kept me on my toe's for a number of years.

How ironic, I am able to sort out a number of other case's like C179 Mrs Harriet Short -- whose the Mother to Richard Henry Moores. The other case has only recently been clarified and is closely linked to Frederick Allen whose real name is Frederick Charles Blades. As oppose to Mrs. Oram allegedly the mother who adopted John Mabey from childhood - that's according to the rare document I have dated 4th December 1912. The Revision Commitee (another of the hidden Committee's based at Southampton) made the recommednations that she should be granted relief. The London Mansion House agreed to the fact's supplied and and confirmed she was to be placed under Class F -- which equals for that time period, a weekly allowance of 5/6 per week.

Interesting that John Mabey is on the 1901 Census living with his eldest brother and his wife William and Agnes Mabey at Freemantle Southampton. Where precisely does this woman Mrs. Oram enter the chapter of this family tree, remains a complete and utter mystery from start to finnish. I cannot find this woman anywhere on the Census. Another hiddrance is also in the way. A vast amount of document's including all the so-called "Letter Files" at Southampton were all destroyed in the mid-sixties. So I don't know where she lives, like I don't know where she was born and what year she married. Yours guesses are as good as mine Sandra.

To end on a happier note. Perhaps Sandra you wish to join our little group FOSOC (Friends of Southampton's Old Cemetery). I shall be there this coming Saturday as we got to do a few more of the Titanc Crew grave's and all efforts are now focused on the other Crew suvivor (Webber) as his grave was recently discovered. I dread to think how much ivy we're going to tackle!

I have nothing else to share on Mrs. Oram only the small amount of details I've supplied above.

Take care and best wishes

Andrew W.

[Sandra J Smith]

Thank you once again for your efforts Andrew.
I have searched high and low for Mrs Oram and she is a total mystery. Beatrice Mary Oram, who married George Mabey (John Mabey's brother) is equally elusive - can't find her as a single woman anywhere on the census returns. I think this is one that will have to go on the back boiler, although I shall never give up hoping that I might sort it out.
(You may remember my story of the Mabey "body in the woodshed" which remained on the back boiler for nearly 30 years - I eventually cracked that one!!)

I would love to join you at the cemetery, but age has finally caught up with me and I'm afraid I can't walk very well now. But I wish you well in your endeavours.
Kind regards
Sandra

[Andrew'sRFSC]

Hello Sandra,

The endevaours of finding this woman - "Mrs. Oram" - will never stop.

I am grateful to your corner though. By supplying another name from the Oram's I can at least make headways in finding this other link. Today I am off to Southampton and as part of my efforts in assisting with the events for the 100th, I am going to view the new Sea City Museum.

I know the feeling, some mornings I have same trouble as I am burden with arthritis like I am glad to see you managed to solve that other Oram problem. My Tree is still loaded with gap's as so many Church records in Southampton were destroyed by the bombing. I've had great success with St. Michael's Church but the rest were all linked to All Saint's Church, which as we both know, has gone.

Best wishes and take care

Andrew W

[Sandra J Smith]

Hi again Andrew,
I think I might have a possible chink in the "Oram armour".
In 1911 there is a Widow Mary Oram, age 72, born Ringwood, living with her son Henry P G Oram, age 35, born Milford on Sea, at 64 Stafford Rd, Southampton. (I believe this is Freemantle)
In 1901 she is living in 2 Brookfield Cottages, Freemantle, age 61 with her son Henry, same places of birth.
In 1891 she is Mary J Oram, living with husband James and various other children at Barnes Farm, Milford. None called Beatrice or Mary though (Beatrice's middle name was Mary).

No doubt you will see all the Titanic paintings in the gallery at the Civic. My brother who took up oil painting when he retired last year, was delighted when his painting of the Titanic was selected for the exhibition. If anyone gets there - his name is Chris Foskett.

[Andrew'sRFSC]

Hello Sandra,

Another tedious day at work. Good to get home on early's so I can relax and refresh the little grey cell's with a good old cuppa and lap up all this glorious weather. Apparantly yesterday weather in Britain was far hotter than Califorina, which is very unusual for March!

If you don't mind I have taken note of all the names in previous the posts. As your word's of wisdom of some years ago stated, one should never close the door but level all options open until the missing-link is found. How I wish I could've been a fly on wall back in 1912. Eavesdropping on all those conversations and I bet some were heavily debated and discussed, like they were in the throws of sorting Mrs. Oram's claim as a mother.

I suspect more than likely although I can never prove it, the finger to point who may have dealt with Mrs. Oram claim, could've have been than other than Mrs. Mary Cash Clibborn, or possibly Mrs. Hicks. Long before the Lady Visitor Maud Newman was offered the position in the November of 1912, these two with aid of Mrs. Lightoller, were more or less on a tempoarily basis, the Lady Visitor's. Sadly none of their own 'Log Books' survive now. With the absences of some many important documents I am really in limbo as I cannot offer the sound advice I wish for.

However, something else to look forward too because once the revamp at the Hawthorns is finished I can get to work and make a start at searching their date base. All I can say Sandra, this is going to take much longer than I initially planned for but once I am satisfied with the end result I shall report back later with some reasonable good news to share.

Very best wishes

Andrew W.

[Sandra J Smith]

After posting that last message I found another Mary Oram, widow, in Freemantle. Possibly an even better contact because she was born in Eling.
Sandra

[Trudi Chant]

Hello Sandra,

I am wondering if we might be related. Having been told today that my father's great uncle went down on RMS Titanic, I started looking up details. All we know is that he was the brother of Edward Mabey, who was my father's maternal grandfather. Some of the family live/d around the Foundry Lane area of Shirley and I too live in the area. (Grove Rd is off Foundry Lane, as I expect you know) We thought that the Mabey on the Titanic had been a stoker/fireman but I see that the only Mabey is John, listed as a steward, which is probably why we never had any success in looking him up previously. I can't find the family in Freemantle in the 1911 census. There is a Mabey family living in Chapel recorded in 1911, but I don't know if there is any connection.

Best wishes,

Trudi Chant

[Sandra J Smith]

Hello Trudi,
I would think there is a very good chance that we are related, although there is no Edward Mabey amongst John Mabey's brothers. He does have a brother Edwin Morris Mabey - is this possibly your Edward? I have a photo of EDwin if that might help identify the correct person.
You will find John in 1911 census living with his brother George in Bevois Valley.
Anything I can do to help, please ask.
Sandra

[Trudi Chant]

Ah yes, Dad confirms that his grandfather was indeed Edwin. I see that the family lived in Millbrook Rd in the 1891 census, when the mother was still alive, and in Bevois Valley in the 1911 census, but can't find them in 1901, which is strange. I don't know anything about Mary Oram's link to the family, I will ask Dad when I see him if he knows of her (he is hard of hearing, so phone calls are difficult). If there's anything you'd like me to ask my father, fire away! Unfortunately, the last of Dad's uncles and aunts died a few years back, so Dad's is now the elder living generation of our Mabey descendants (Dad's surname is Nineham, if that is any interest to you, his Mum, Maud Mabey, married Bert Nineham, who ran a wet fish shop in Shirley High Street) Any photos would be brilliant, thanks.

Best wishes,

Trudi

[Sandra J Smith]

John is with his brother William and Family in Eling in 1901.
We must be related in another way, because my grandmother''s family (she married Leonard Charles Mabey) also inter-married with the Ninehams.
I'll send you phoyos, but need your email address.
Sandra

[Andrew Clarkson]

Trudi, I've removed your post containing your email address, it's not always a good idea!

Simply click on Sandra's, or anyone's, name, and you will see their profile, complete with an email link, a much safer option.

[Trudi Chant]

Thanks Andrew!

[Andrew Clarkson]

Thanks Andrew!

Glad to be of assistance Trudi.

[fozzie]

hello sandra and trudie, Edwin Mabey was in the engine room he was a Greaser,Chris Sandra's Brother
Also I believe he was on the City of Adalaide,fever ship in Southampton water with my Great Grandfather Henry Charles Mabey, his other brother.who was the eldest.