Bruce Ismay

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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby nboal » Thu May 31, 2012 2:07 pm

George Lorton wrote:I thought Ismay got off the starboard side, where Murdoch was working on collapsible C (39 aboard), the last starboard-side boat. He would of had to go and look for Ms Abbott and her boys as he was on the other side of the ship.
I believe that Ismay could have asked Murdoch to wait a bit so that Ismay could find other 3rd class passengers to board Collapsible C. He could have gone down to meet with steerage passengers come up to the boat deck or else gone off to port side to look for passengers who were still there. I'm still not convinced that Ismay had absolutely no time at all to take a bit of time to go look for passengers. He would have been taking a chance that the lifeboat would have had to leave without him, but I believe that this was a chance that he had to take. I notice that Murdoch certainly didn't step into Collapsible C even as the ship was sinking. He also could have tried to save himself, but he continued in his duties even unto his death.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby Aly Jones » Thu May 31, 2012 2:43 pm

He would have been taking a chance that the lifeboat would have had to leave without him, but I believe that this was a chance that he had to take. I notice that Murdoch certainly didn't step into Collapsible C even as the ship was sinking. He also could have tried to save himself, but he continued in his duties even unto his death.

Nbaols, I know you have knowledge on passengers,crew Titanic etc... I respect that of you, but however, Ismay were a 1stclass passenger and Officer Murdoch were an senor officer on duty. Both men had different agendas. Ismay traveling as a passenger and by a request from an officer, Ismay had all the right in the world to step in a lifeboat, Murdoch did not have such a privilege. Ismay never boarded a lifeboat until an officer requested men to have permission to board.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby nboal » Thu May 31, 2012 7:02 pm

Aly Jones wrote:Ismay were a 1stclass passenger and Officer Murdoch were an senor officer on duty.
OK, Ismay was officially a 1st class passenger. But he didn't pay for his ticket. He was traveling in his position as the White Star Lines owner. Ismay being "just a passenger" is fiction -- his agenda was far different than that of an ordinary passenger.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby George Lorton » Thu May 31, 2012 8:13 pm

Aly, sorry but Nboals pointed out most excellently that Ismay was traveling as the chairman of White Star lines and through his actions or lack of actions brought his fate upon himself. I am sure that if you really thought about and looked at his actions or lack of action I should say on his part you would agree with us. Personally I thought Walter Lord summed up Ismay the best in The Night Lives On judging from what I have read which isn't that much to be honest and I probably need to re-study a lot of my info too.But I have so much to study and so little time.

Getting back to Ismay I think he deserved everything he got.... I know that sounds mean, but somebody else who paid for their ticket could of used that seat like 13 year old Eugene Abbott for one or little Sidney Goodwin and his 16 year old sister Lily
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby Aly Jones » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:30 am

I think the two of you are so very wrong on with a man that survived a dreadful disaster.

Nearly all the lifeboats were half filled???? Yes? and yet, Ismay took one seat. The officers could had stacked many more passengers in those seats including- 13 year old Eugene Abbott for one or little Sidney Goodwin and his 16 year old sister Lily and many more. So what, Ismay did not pay for his ticket and he was manager director, so should he die for that very reason? The boat were going to leave without Ismay and all others period! Ismay added to the survivors count.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby joshua » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:09 am

I don't think he deserved it. There was simply no time. Chief Officer Wilde called for more women and children and none came forward. Water was 1-2 decks below and they had one more boat to get away. How could Ismay have known many more were on board? He was under the officers of the WSL while on board and when he was asked to get in he and Mr. Carter did as told by the officer. They deserved no public humiliation but instead honor.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby Aly Jones » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:45 am

Some feel that Ismay should had declined the officer's request. Maybe he should had. In defence for Ismay, we don't even know what it is like to be on a foundering ship with only 2hrs with a few 20 lifeboats.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby nboal » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:36 pm

George Lorton wrote: Ismay was traveling as the chairman of White Star lines and through his actions or lack of actions brought his fate upon himself.

Getting back to Ismay I think he deserved everything he got.... I know that sounds mean, but somebody else who paid for their ticket could of used that seat like 13 year old Eugene Abbott for one or little Sidney Goodwin and his 16 year old sister Lily
Well said. I couldn't have said it better.

It seems that J.Bruce Ismay is a very controversial subject in this day and age. I'm curious: has anyone read Frances Wilson's book, How To Survive The Titanic: The Sinking Of J. Bruce Ismay? I'm in the middle of this book and it's quite interesting, to say the least.

Here is an article by Frances Wilson on the subject of J. Bruce Ismay and his management techniques.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/04/ ... e-titanic/
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby wruth03@aol.com » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:25 pm

Aly is right how do any of us know how we would react if we were on a sinking ship with insufficient lifeboat space for all on board. It is easy for us here sat at home to say Ismay should have done this or that. However placed on a rapidly sinking ship with too few lifeboats in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean how can we say what we would do? The truth is I know for a fact that there are plenty of people out there who would do just what Ismay did. Also what would Ismay drowning out there really have achieved? Absolutely nothing just one more death to add to the fifteen hundred plus that did lose their lives that night. I am not saying Ismay was a great man or anything else. However what good would one more death have gained. After all were there not far too many fatalities as it was? I personally believe there were and really would not want to add another.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby joshua » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:53 am

I think this event ought to be considered important. If he is a hero (which I believe he was) then we ought to make it known and restore Ismay's honor. Let's face it. The poor man has been shamed when he ought to be honored for 100 years. His situation is comparable to Dr. Samuel Mudd from the Lincoln assassination. Mudd's family to this day would is trying to restore his name.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby Aly Jones » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:21 am

However what good would one more death have gained. After all were there not far too many fatalities as it was? I personally believe there were and really would not want to add another.

Denise, that's what I was trying to point out too, to the ones that say Ismay should had remain aboard.

Would anyone here decline a seat in a lifeboat In the same situation as Ismay? No! So why should Ismay be crucified?

We talk about there should not be any class discrimination for 3rd class but some of you are being discriminative towards Ismay for being rich, not paying for his ticket and being the manager director of the WSL.

Put your own male family member in the shoes of Ismay etc...father,husband,son,brother, being offered a seat and having two choices either accepting the offer or declining the offer. Now, do you think the same way that Ismay should remain aboard the doomed vessel?
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby George Lorton » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:07 am

You all make good points but to me it seems Ismay got what he deserved. Dr Mudd really can not be compared to Ismay as he was just doing his work as a Physician setting Booth's leg. Ismay was just saving himself when he could of been looking for other passengers instead of slithering away on the boat while innocent people who paid his family money to sail on his ship that he totted as unsinkable sank, taking them with it. I still feel that he got the comeuppance he deserved.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby joshua » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:26 am

Ismay wasn't the owner. He was just the president of the company. He really was in a delicate place when he was asked to get in. I'm sure even you Mr. Lorton would've at least considered it. As it has been similarly pointed out, had Ismay died that night he just would've been another name on the list of the dead, left questions he alone could answer forever unanswered, and added one more poor widow for the reporters to hound.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby Aly Jones » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:48 am

I still feel that he got the comeuppance he deserved.
Why? He still were a human-being with the same rights as Smith and all other passengers to save himself, like how anyone there and us would had done.
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Re: Bruce Ismay

Postby George Lorton » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:30 am

Okay Joshua and Aly, first off I never said I would not consider getting into a boat, second, I never said he was the owner, just the chairman of the board, third, I said you both and everyone else made some good points in Ismay's defense, still the fact remains that he slithered away while millions drowned. Of course he said he was ordered into the lifeboat, what do you expect the man to say on the witness stand to the US Senate, that he got in and said F___ 'em all when being questioned. As I said before he had privileged information and knew before anyone else what was coming and he still left passengers to shift for themselves. It is my personal opinion that the man got his just desserts. at least he still had his life which is more then most got that night. I don't feel sorry for him at all when I weigh everything on the scales.
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