Aly Jones wrote:
Instead, he stepped into Collapsible C and saved himself.
But nboals, What's wrong with that? why should he? Ismay was a male passenger, he could not afford to go around searching for passengers. The officer asked' any more men? he was carrying a 1st class passenger ticket, he had all the right in the world to obey the officers commands that requested men allowing to enter a lifeboat---the officer requested men were aloud to hop aboard his lifeboat. Ismay committed no crime. Men were lucky enough to have at least one officer letting men in a lifeboat, and If not, we would had more casualties that night.
It wasn't a matter of Ismay's gender -- of course, if no women were present and there were men available, then if an officer requests male passengers (of whatever class) to get into a lifeboat, then there is no blame for that at all. But what does matter is the fiction that Ismay was a mere passenger. He didn't pay for his ticket; he got it because of his position as the owner of White Star Lines. And as thus, he truly was more like a White Star Lines official than he was a paying passenger. After all, Murdoch didn't try to get into Collapsible C, telling himself that there were no more passengers immediately available so why shouldn't he be allowed.
It sounds like you think all 1500 lifeboats spots capacity were only for women and children only .
You are full of erroneous generalizations about my views. I have never
stated that all 1500 lifeboat spots should be only for women and children. It was up to the officers in charge. Captain Smith said "women and children first," not "women and children only." Lightoller interpreted this in a different way than Murdoch and some others did. As for Lightoller, there were a lot of women arriving on the decks to take lifeboat spots. I do believe that Lightoller was unreasonable in not allowing some older boys to get into the boats along with younger children, girls, and women. I think that this is what happened with Rhoda Abbott's sons; Lightoller thought that they were too old -- he wanted to separate Mrs. Abbott's sons from their mother. Mrs. Abbott thought that was intolerable; she wanted to keep her family together -- can you blame her? I know that Arthur Ryerson had problems with Lightoller getting his 11 year old son into a lifeboat; he had to insist and finally Lightoller allowed the child in with his mother and sisters. It seems that the port side was a lot more crowded than the starboard side. That is understandable given that the ship was listing to starbboard so more people would climb up to the port side.
On the starboard side, Murdoch was allowing men into the boats when he couldn't find any women or children. Perhaps he could have waited a bit or else he could have gone down into steerage to see if any women or children were available. And actually, I believe that he did because a whole group of Lebanese steerage women, many who didn't speak English, were loaded onto Collapsible C -- I believe that Murdoch went and found them to load in. But as I said, the ship was listing to starboard, so there didn't seem to be as many people on starboard as there were on the port side. On the other hand, there were steerage passengers still making their way up to the boat decks on both sides.
The main problem with the differences between what Murdoch allowed and what Lightoller allowed is that there was no set policy. Each officer was left on his own to interpret the Captain's orders and there were different situations and different interpretations.
First, you dislike Hichens because he had a tiff with a women Molly Brown because Hichens never went back, but only one lifeboat went back.
As for Hichens, he was very demanding and rude. There was an ethical dilemma about whether his lifeboat should go back. Mrs. Brown believed that the lifeboat should go back and so did many of the other women passengers. I believe that Mrs. Brown was correct. I'm not saying that the boat could have saved all of the swimmers. But they could have saved one or two at least.
As for Major Peuchen, Lightoller ordered him onto the boat because he had previous sea experiences (going on his large yacht) and Lightoller thought that another experienced seaman should be on the boat. Peuchen tried to use some of his experience to suggest that Hichens should take an oar (as Peuchen was doing) and allow one of the women to handle the tiller. Hichens blew up at Peuchen. At one point, Hichen's yelling and swearing got so loud that Mrs. Brown said that she would throw him overboard if he wouldn't shut up. Hichens finally quieted down.
Secondly, you hate Ismay because he was a male that survive.
Again, another erroneous generalization. I have never said that I "hate" Ismay at all, nor did I ever say that he didn't deserve to be saved because he was a man. My views about Ismay, as I stated above, are based on the fact that Ismay was truly a White Stars Line official and didn't fit into that fiction about being merely a passenger.
When your own life is at stake, you don't worry about strangers lives but your own. Pretty sure Ismay were thinking this at that time. I would had too thought of myself and my immediate family in a life and death situation.
Then why didn't Murdoch, Captain Smith, or many of the people (in all classes) who stepped back so that others could be saved -- why didn't they just rush into the lifeboats and push all those who were in the way out of the way? Believe it or not, some people really do worry about other lives, including lives of strangers, rather than just their own.
[edited to correct my statements of Ismay being a "ship's officer". Instead, I listed him as a White Star Line official, as the owner of the White Star Line]