"Hard a starboard" and related subjects

[Dave Gittins]

The UN is involved today through the International Maritime Organisation, which is deeply involved in maritime safety. Since the 1970s it has been empowered to make new regulations as new problems arise. These come into force automatically, unless nations object. This reduces delays in fixing problems.

[pat toms]

Dave, I only thought that the U.N. might have something to do with Ships regulations,but now I know from your last post that they do,International regulations from the U.N. which also shows that the U.N. in which I served,twice as one of their ground troops has a say in all sorts of things as well as troops etc,thanks for the reply. Pat

[Peter Fryer]

Three days before Titanic hit the berg, the liner Normandy hit a berg dead slow barely ten miles from where Titanic struck. Her bows were severely crumped in and she was lucky to make Port St Johns under her own power. Head-on at 21 knots, the damage would have been worse. But check out the pictures of the underwater wreck too and see how the fore hull is buckled. That's what happened when she hit the bottom at around 30 knots after falling two-and-a-half miles. Hitting bergs was by no means uncommon in the early Twentieth Century - see the collision register at http://www.icedata.ca/Docs/bergs2.pdf

Peter Fryer
Author of Stop the Titanic, an e-book thriller
More at http://www.facebook.com/StopTheTitanic

[Aly Jones]

Hi peter, welcome. I agree with your book title' stop the titanic'... Before it is too late.


Why would Titanic hit a Berg head on going fast / full speed or over 21 knots? (the berg were sighted 380km out) In any case, if they chose to do a head on collision, the ship would had been slowed down before impact. Don't make any Sence, crew reacting to a Berg by not either porting around the berg or slowing the ship down but instead, allowing the ship to maintain speed directly towards the berg.

[ardtornish]

I think you meant 380 metres not kilometers out Aly. Even then, that's too far ahead of the ship.

If you think about it, Titanic was going straight then Murdoch ordered hard a starboard (left). Titanic would only have been turning away from the berg for as long as it took for the quartermaster to turn the steering wheel hard over to the left because Hichens said the ship hit just as he got the wheel hatd over. That took about 6 seconds maximum.
In 6 seconds at Titanic's speed of 21.6 knots, she would have covered a distance of 66.8 meters (219 feet). If she had hit the iceberg head on then that is how far the iceberg was from the bow when Murdoch gave the order to turn. However, the iceberg hit the ship at a point no more than 15 meters past the bow on the starboard side.

So that ice berg was only 66.8 minus 15 = 51.8 meters or 170 feet ahead of the ship when Murdoch ordered the turn.

here's a picture of what I mean:

6 seconds away.JPG (20.37 KiB) Viewed 533 times

Ard.

[pat toms]

Ardtornish,In your diagram you report Murdoch sees the iceberg through his binnooculars,this seems strange as lots of discussion has taken place about the Binnoculars being no use,so it did not matter that the two lookouts in the crows nest apparently did not need any,yet Murdoch used binnoculars? And also going at such a speed in the Titanic there was no room to manouvre,or very little room to take evasive action,either right or left,to the port side or the starboard side,I am just showing off with my Naval terminology here.However I do not no much about the navy but that is why the topics about Titanic are so interesting to me. Pat

[ardtornish]

Hello Pat.

The reason Murdoch saw the thing with his binoculars was because, when they sounded the 3 warning bells, he would first look directly ahead without them, looking for a light.. not an iceberg because that is what he would be expecting to see.
Lookouts were higher that the bridge so would see lights further away than those on the bridge.
When he did not see a light, he would know they had seen something and immediately use his binoculars. Simultaneously , he would see an iceberg as close as it just had to be.

Ard.

[Dave Gittins]

I think Peter means the liner Niagra.

[pat toms]

Ardtornish,Looking for a light is the explanation,I do not know what you mean by a light?What light?A light from the Stars or maybe a light reflecting from the Iceberg/ However you may think I know what you mean,but i have never looked at Icebergs at night,especially when I crossed the North Atlantic on the Empress of France but saw them during the day in 1957 aged 18 years old. Pat

[Peter Fryer]

Thank you Dave, I stand corrected. I do indeed mean the liner Niagara. I was so involved looking at other similarities, I was a little careless with my post. The cargo vessel Normandy was two years earlier on 7 May 1910. In dense fog she hit an obstruction - attributed to a berg, but it could have been a rock - 15 miles of Tors Cove in Newfoundland. She sank, though no lives were lost. I absolutely cannot imagine what it would be like to run smack on into a totally immovable mountain of ice at 21 knots, but your earlier description is pretty vivid. If you look at pictures of fully loaded heavyweight objects like trains in collisions - with the most incredible inertia even at 20 mph - the damage is devastating. For me, it is a miracle that Titanic was not lost within minutes, taking nearly everyone with her.
Peter Fryer
Author of Stop the Titanic, an e-book thriller
More at http://www.facebook.com/StopTheTitanic

[pat toms]

The Iceberg subject has bean explored By a man called Collins from Newfoundland who is an expert on the subject i have his book which i reviewed some time ago. Pat

[MAB]

^ why?

Didn't Titanic go through sea trails days before her voyage that Included- zigzaging? and her ability to stop to a complete stop In a certain amount of time? how long It took for her to turn? If not Titanic, the Olympic had her trails a year before and sailed a whole year on the ocean before Titanic came along.Titanic's abilities on the sea would had been printed down on paper and three Titanic officers actually crewed the Olympic for a whole year before the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

So, why the crew never knew Titanic that well?

[Titanic_Malaysia]

Well, I guess even though Titanic's crew were sufficiently trained to handle such situations, panic must have creeped in, the moment one of the guys announced the sighting of the iceberg... When people start to panic, they tend to do stuff without thinking, which must have explained what happened on deck!

[pat toms]

Titanic-Malaysia,this ship was going full speed ahead across the N.Atlantic there was no intention of veering of course and they were nearly in New York,but going fast meant that as some people know could not navigate through icebergs anyway and were not well enough informed what to do,we know it toook half a mile to turn anyway,so take this into consideraton a 40 thousand ton ship cannot turn in a tight circle unless it was going slow.all they had to do was to miss the iceberg. Pat

[ardtornish]

Pat, A ship turns faster the faster it goes. The slower it goes, the slower it turns. It's all to do with pressure on the rudder etc.
The men on Titanic were the highest qualified men at sea at that time. They had over a 100 years experience, 5 Master's Tickets and 4 Extra Masters tickets. If they didn't know how to react in an emergency then no one else would have half a chance.
They hit the iceberg because it was small, not easily seen and too close for them to avoid it... simple!

Ard.