Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

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Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:25 pm

Hi Everyone,

I currently have a VERY rare item to which I need some expert advice for please. It looks to be a genuine Titanic or sister ship receipt. I have added the photos of the item here if you can please have a look at it for me and tell me what you make of it. It is certainly very old and not a copy as the ink etc is real on it.

The link to the item photos is http://www.flickr.com/photos/norrie3699/sets/72157632441163849/

The following details are what I have found to prove that this item may be genuine :

I believe the date on the receipt is 20th March 1907 (might be 1909 I'll let you decide from the photo). It is VERY VERY rare as it's before the launch of the Titanic. The receipt is for Billiard table cloth and pockets. The company is Burroughes & Watts Ltd which is a very famous company which has a direct link to Titanic :
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mercury+Money%3A+Made+In+The+Midlands.-a064184197 (Read full text)

If you read the next link it refers to 'Comber' and the name 'Andrew's' which again are two vital pieces of information which link directly to the Titanic, Andrew's being one of the main names to the design and build of RMS Titanic (Thomas Andrews) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comber

This item has a very small bit of the bottom right hand corner torn off.

I would be EXTREMELY grateful for anyone who knows what this item really is and if it's genuine ? I can get more photos etc should you need them.

Thankyou, take care
Andrew
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Eric K. Longo » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Hello,

I am not sure what you are getting at? Genuine what? Don't know which ship? Why a ship? Where am I missing the relevant words "Titanic" or "Olympic" or "400" or "401" etc? Perhaps if you restate your question? Billiard cloth? Snooker table or pocket billiards? I dunno.The date is "07" J. Andrews? T. Andrews. What is the connection here apart from being his brother? Rather thin...Many firms lay claim to items supposedly on Titanic, such as Pirkenhammer. More evidence of a linear nature (and logical) would prove helpful. If I am wrong and there was a billiard table in a liner or a shipment of cloth from this firm on board we will know soon enough ;) If not, I have no idea what you are saying? Old ink and old paper mean nothing.
Eric
Design/concept consultation. Digital images/restoration of prints & transparencies Examples: Chirnside's Olympic Class Liners, Maxtone-Graham's Normandie. Recently: National Building Museum, D.C. (U.S.) & The Segedunum Museum, Wallsend (U.K.).
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi Eric,

Calm down lol The receipt I have is from obviously before Titanic sunk. The receipt itself has several links to either the Titanic or one of it's sister ships if you read and check the links I provided in the question. I am simply and only trying to find out if there is anyone out there with any in depth knowledge that might be able to look at what I have and give me any extra information of what it may belong to. Please read through the links and related them to the receipt photos shown.

I got the impression you were a bit hacked off Eric and not sure why you went like that lol I am simply looking for information about my item and don't know where else to look. If it is genuine then obviously I have stumbled upon a very rare and possibly expensive item from before Titanic sailed.

Thankyou for your message though.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Eric K. Longo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:10 am

Hi,

Oh, part of what I do is authenticate items (and the reverse).
Lets start over! :D
Tell me, or us, what you think this is and why you think it has a relation to either ship and why you think it important.
You state it is "100%" genuine, yet you you don't know what it is? Please tell what you think you have :)

Best wishes,
Eric
Design/concept consultation. Digital images/restoration of prints & transparencies Examples: Chirnside's Olympic Class Liners, Maxtone-Graham's Normandie. Recently: National Building Museum, D.C. (U.S.) & The Segedunum Museum, Wallsend (U.K.).
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:18 am

Hi Eric,

Thankyou I'd appreciate starting over as I never intended to get on any nerves lol I'll list the main wording below that leads me to believe the item 'might' be linked :

    Burroughes & Watts Ltd - This is the company that made the best of the best Billiard Tables. One of the billiard tables on the Titanic was made by this company.

    20th March 1907 (or 1909) - This is obviously 3 or 5 years before Titanic sunk making it possible for it to be linked to when the ship was built and being in the correct time period.

    The name at the top left - I'm not sure of the first initial as it's hard to make out but the second name is 100% 'Andrews' which of course is the same as the famous Titanic designer Thomas Andrews.

    Comber - Below the name 'Andrews' is the location 'Comber' this of course is where the 'Andrews' family originated from.

    The items on the receipt - I'm not sure just how many billiard tables were on the Titanic as I'm not that clued up but if there was one then this receipt has been made out for one set of pockets and I'm not sure what the other set states as it's in fancy writing which makes my eyes go all funny lol

I do hope that I have pointed all the relevant parts out that led me to believe that this receipt may be a genuine piece of history. It's certainly not fake. There is other writing on the back of the receipt (shown in the photos) but again I can't make out what it says exactly.

There is obviously so much information I can trawl from the receipt itself to plead my case of why it's possibly genuine. I need people like yourself that may be able to see deeper into the item and find other pieces that gives clues to what it was for and which ship it may have been for.

Thankyou again Eric for getting back to me I appreciate it.

Take care
Andrew
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Dave Gittins » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:00 am

About all the account proves is that in 1907 somebody called Andrews, of Comber, bought the necessary parts to finish a billiard table. Maybe he was renovating one in his own home. Was he related to Thomas Andrews? Maybe.

I suspect the sale has nothing to do with any ship. Accounts for things supplied to ships would be billed to Harland & Wolff and sent to Belfast.
Dave Gittins
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:17 am

Yes this is true but I hoped there might be some professional help with this item not just assumptions. Thanks Dave
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby VW1956 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:41 pm

Hello. I have to go along with Dave on the fact that any bills would have been made to Harland and Wolff. Also thinking would billiards (or snooker) have been played on board a ship. Would have been a long game what with the ship rolling around. Ken.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:46 pm

Hi Ken,

There was at least one Billiard table onboard the Titanic though. Don't you think it's a little coincidence with all the details I gave at the top ?
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Ioannis Georgiou » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:06 pm

Is this a genuine Receipt? Yes.
Has it anything to do with Titanic? No!

There were no billiard tables ever on board Olympic & Titanic.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:12 pm

May I ask why each person that has answered has been so arrogant with their replies ? I haven't once done anything to provoke anger so please pack it in ! I'm only after information so if you don't have anything nice to say then don't bother. Thankyou !
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Ioannis Georgiou » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:25 pm

NORRIE3699 wrote:May I ask why each person that has answered has been so arrogant with their replies ? I haven't once done anything to provoke anger so please pack it in ! I'm only after information so if you don't have anything nice to say then don't bother. Thankyou !


I don't know were here is an arrogant reply.
You asked about a Titanic connection and get an answer that there is no connection. You seemed to like to ignore that fact because it does not fit with your point of view?
By the way some of us who reply on your message know more about the ship then you and I can assure you that there were no billiard tables ever on board Titanic & Olympic.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Ioannis Georgiou » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Burroughes & Watts, did not supply anything to the Olympic & Titanic.

And from their own page;
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mercury+M ... a064184197

>> It's also responsible for what must be both the world's highest and lowest billiard tables. One is believed to be resting at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean Atlantic Ocean, second largest ocean, inside the Titanic.<<

Even the statement that they "believe" that one of these tables is inside Titanic, show that it is based on assumption.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby NORRIE3699 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:37 pm

Hi Ioannis,

Thankyou for the last message you put. The arrogany replies I reffered to were the people with the agressive remarks with all this -> !! and this ?? and more of this ?? and basically tearing me to shreads because I was asking about my item but I felt like I had put a one word question lol. Obviously apart from your last comment no one else is serious about helping so please forget about it. I'm very dissapointed in the attitude of the way people word their questions and comments here....I thought everyone would be more welcoming and friendly....that must be to diffucult.
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Re: Possible Genuine Titanic (or sister ship) Receipt ?

Postby Ioannis Georgiou » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:04 pm

No problem. I am not English so I may did not notice the difference.
I know that in some cases the posting may sound rude but it was not that what the writer wanted to sound.

As Dave Gittins indicate, there possibly could be some connection to the Andrews family. Maybe his brother James or John? But beside from that I have no idea.
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